Even more mail from CIC

Wow, those paper worshiping government employees at CIC are now working overtime on my case. Too bad they couldn't have done this, say ummmm, when I actually applied for the immigration 2 years ago. I withdraw the statement as I forgot who I was talking about.

November 16, 2007

Dear Ms. CXXXX & family

This is in reference to your application for permanent residence under the Spouse or common-law partner in-Canada class, received at our Central Processing Centre-Vegreville on 15Feb'2006.

We have received the correspondence dated 19Sep'2007, from yourself and your sponsor, MXXXX CXXXXX, indicating your sponsor's desire to withdraw or cancel the Undertaking he submitted on your behalf. His request is accepted and a copy our letter to him is attached.

I noted that you also have requested withdrawal of your application for permanent residence and indicate that it is your intention to leave Canada. As such, no further action will be taken on your application for permanent residence.

As you are currently in Canada without Immigration status, you are required to verify your departure from Canada. Please submit the attached Voluntary Departure Letter, for yourself and your son, to the Immigration authorities at your port of exit from Canada. Failure to verify your departure could result in you becoming the subject of a report under section 44 of the Immigration Act.

The cost recovery fee of $700 that was paid on this application is non-refundable. The Right of Permanent Residence fee in the amount of $975.00 will be refunded to your sponsor as he was the payee. This process has been refered to our Vegreville office as that office recieved the original payment.

The client number in the upper right corner of this letter is your personal identification number and it provides access to information on your file. For your own protection, do not allow any other person to use this number. If you require any further information, please contact our Call Centre at 1-888-242-2100.

Yours truly,

D.M.Salmon
Immigration Officer
Citizenship & Immigration Canada
5343 Dundas Street West
Etobicoke ON M9B 6K5

cc: my spouse

Where to start with this.... First, the fees were charged on my card, not my husband's. My daily card limit is at $1,800 while my husband's was at $1,000, so we opted to use mine. No matter, we have a joint account and the measly refund will go directly in our savings account to be used on our soon-to-be house.

Secondly, I left Canada in September 2007. Kind of hard now to provide this form they want. I am debating calling the Call Centre and informing them of such, but as is the completely inefficient CIC way, their toll-free number doesn't work outside of Canada and I do not feel like putting one more ounce of money (long distance fees) or time (an hour on hold is fairly average) into this process.

Thirdly, CIC will not issue refunds outside of Canada. So, if I give them my true and correct address in the U.S., I do not get a refund. Go figure this logic out, someone, and get back to me because I just cannot get my mind wrapped around it.

My husband's correspondence is nearly identical to mine with a few minor and unimportant changes so I will not bother with it.

The form they want to me to have completed is an IMM 5021. It just requires me to sign it and for some immigration officer to verify my airline flight number, date and time of departure and location of departure. So, bring on the report under section 44 of the Immigration Act and let us see if these officers can reach me here in the U.S. is what I am thinking now. I certainly won't make any effort to have it completed anytime before the Right of Landing Fee has been deposited and cleared our bank account.

Yippee! More mail from CIC

It appears that the one sure fire way to get a response from CIC, since it isn't by filing an immigration application, is to withdraw an application. I received this letter recently:

16 November 2007

This refers to your request for a refund of fees paid for Right of Permanent Resident Fee.

A refund in the amount of $975.00 has been requested. This refund cheque will be sent to the original payer of the fee who in this case is your sponsor MXXXXX CXXXXX.

The client number shown in the upper right corner of this letter is your personal identification number. This number provides access to information on your file and for your own protection you should not allow any other person to use it. If sending correspondece to Citizenship and Immigration Canada please include your personal identification number. Failure to include this number could result in the return of your correspondence unanswered.

Please note that if another person has paid the fee on your behalf, the reufnd will be issued to that person.

If you require further assistance, please telephone the Citizenship and Immigration Canada Call Centre, toll-free at 1-888-242-2100 and be prepared to quote your client number and your date of birth. General information and application kits may also be obtained throught our Internet Web site at http://www.cic.gc.ca.

Please notificy this office, in writing, or any Citizenship and Immigration Call Centre, by telephone, of any change in your address.

Yours truly,

Officer LWE/CSU
Case Processing Centre
Vegreville, Alberta

Very disappointing, but not unexpected, indeed.

Nemo was swallowed by Moby

Yes, in my preparations for moving back to the U.S., I have that one last open issue with CIC: Nemo. Since I now am withdrawing my application, Nemo has since met with an unfortunate demise. Nemo was swallowed whole by Moby. Now Moby, is huge compared to poor little Nemo; Moby is $1,600.00 wonderful, Canadian, monopoly colored, dollars. Moby is the entire set of fees that I paid to CIC back in October 2005 (including the $975.00 Right of Landing Fee). I almost feel bad for Nemo, but I have bigger fish to fry (pun very much intended).

I decide that CIC, just like every other person or entity on this planet, does not get to have their cake and eat it too. According to CIC's website, the refund of the overpayment is automatic once the file begins processing; there is no need to request the refund, no forms to fill out, no paper to send the friendly paper worshiping Canadian government employees. Recall, that I have been around this circular logic with the Call Center employees already regarding getting an overpayment refund that is still outstanding. I decide now is the time to put it to paper and post it for all the world to see. Either way, at a minimum, I am obligated to receive the Right of Landing fee of $975 refund, since I will not be landing. To add insult to injury, I was informed by the friendly Call Center employees, that CIC can take up to 1 year to refund the Right of Landing fee. I do not think I have ever come across anyone or anything that thinks it is ok to hold a refund that they don't dispute for 1 year, but whatever.


So, I sit down and pen this letter:

September 18, 2007

Citizenship & Immigration Canada
5343 Dundas Street W
3^rd floor
Etobicoke ON M9B 6K5

RE: Withdrawal of Application & Request for Refund of Fees
Client ID 563XXXXX
my name, DOB: XXMarXXXX
my husband's name, DOB: XXFebXXXX

To Whom It May Concern:

We would like to withdraw our applications for In Canada Application for Permanent Residence. This would also include withdrawal for Spousal Sponsorship application and all other related applications for the primary applicant, spouse, and dependents. The file was originally filed with the CIC Vegreville office on February 11, 2006 and noted as received by Vegreville on February 15, 2006. The file was transferred to your office on November 7, 2006.

Due to the time it has taken for your office to even start processing the file, we have elected not to pursue residency in Canada and have instead decided to move out of country. Additionally, the utter lack of communication from your office regarding this file has made this immigration process frustrating and completely unproductive. I hope, for the benefit of future immigrants, your Ministry can find ways to improve the efficiency of this system.

We also request a full refund of fees (excluding the $75.00 processing fee). Enclosed please find a copy of our receipt of payment of $1,675.00 made October 9, 2005. This refund can be mailed to our current address:

our address
our address

Please note that we have not received the refund of overpayment of the right of landing fees in the amount of $485 to which we became eligible in May 2006, although several requests have been made for that refund. The basis for our full refund request lies with the CIC itself that advised that the $485 overpayment refund is issued automatically when the file begins processing. Obviously, since we have not yet become eligible for the overpayment refund due to the file not being processed, it only stands to reason that as such, we should be eligible for the full refund for the file not being processed.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact either of us at our phone.

Regards,

me

my husband

CC: Citizenship & Immigration Canada
Case Processing Center
6212 55^th Ave
Vegreville, AB T9C 1W5

Office of Hon. Roy Cullen, MP
815 Albion Road

I figure Len at our MP's office might appreciate a copy, so why not?

Moreover, I have a note in my calendar for April 15, 2008. I will start resending this letter on a weekly basis to the parties listed if I have not received a refund by that date. I am sure they will appreciate the regular reminders. I think 6 months is gracious on my part, and occasionally, I can be nice and accommodating (tongue firmly set in cheek).

Perchance to Travel...

By now, I have completely severed all contact with CIC. I do not have anything left to send them or to say to them. I have even given up hope of ever seeing Nemo again and I cannot even muster the energy to call them.

Regrettably, I think I will soon be feeling their presence in my life in a most unwanted way. I have begun to diligently look for work in my field in the U.S. Having completed several phone interviews, I will soon be flying to the U.S. for the more formal face to face interviews. I know that the minute my plane crosses the border into the U.S., I will likely not be returning 'home' to Toronto if CIC has anything to do with it. After realizing that I am out of status here in Canada and after being threatened with deportation by the friendly CIC agents, I can foresee no other end to this dreaded tale except being refused entry into Canada at the airport.

I am almost excited about returning to Pearson Airport and seeing things happen. My husband has our MP's phone number saved into his cell phone, just in case I do get detained. We might as well bother Len a bit, even though he warned me not to travel. "It is really hard to get a job without an interview, in my experience," I will tell him. The only thing I dread is knowing that I will probably be sitting somewhere in the airport for hours while the paper worshiping Canadian government employees go and shuffle papers.

My attitude of shaking things up just as much as we can prior to sticking a fork in it continues. We might as well get our money's worth out of this whole fiasco since it seems unlikely that CIC is going to bother refunding anything, even the overpayment.

Finding Nemo II

Nemo is still missing and I have given up any hope of ever seeing Nemo again, but I make one last attempt at recovering my fees and my conversation with the paper worshiping CIC agent goes something similar to this:

Me: "I am calling to ask about getting a refund of my fees if I withdraw my application."

CIC: "After reviewing your file, it appears we started processing on it in June 2006 so you would only be entitled to the Landing Fee to be refunded."

Me: "I still am overpaid by $485 for that Landing Fee, why haven't I received that yet?"

CIC: "That refund is automatic when we start processing your file."

Me: "But you just stated you started processing the file in June 2006. I am not eligible for a full refund because you started processing my file. Shouldn't I have received the refund of the overpayment by now?"

CIC: "Your file was transferred in November 2006 to the local CIC. At that time they elected not to process your overpayment refund."

Me: "So, I do not get the full refund of my fees when I withdraw my application because you HAVE started processing my file. I do not get the refund of my overpayment of $485 because you HAVE NOT started processing my file. Am I understanding this correctly?"

CIC: "It is a little bit more complicated that that. We have manuals of procedures are are to follow and the procedure was not to provide the overpayment refund at that time."

And so goes CIC and their pretzel logic. I am waving the white flag.

Gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em

Late June 2007 has a flurry of activity, on my part at least. Through this forum, I learned about ordering FOSS notes. These are the electronic notes made by immigration officers regarding an immigration file. I quickly mailed off my request for them. Perhaps these notes can shed light on what exactly the issue is any why my application is still sitting, virtually untouched for 16 months. I hope that these notes do not take years to get, but I don't count on it.

Also, I investigate the idea of withdrawing my application in whole and reapplying an 'outside' application, namely through the Buffalo NY CIC office. The outside applications have a consistent history of being processed faster than the 'inside' applications. I believe this is due to the way CIC frowns upon 'inside' applications, but who really knows for sure. In order to make an informed decision, I contact the friendly paper worshiping Canadian government employees and the Call Center. You would think that we are on a first name basis now, but sadly, we are not. I inquire about the withdrawal process and getting a refund. If Nemo has shown me anything, it is like bailing the Titanic with a thimble, and not likely to be successful.

I mentally prepare myself for the lack of information I am about to receive from the Call Center. Imagine my surprise when I reach a *gasp* helpful agent! His name is Phillip. I quiz Phillip for almost 45 minutes. He researches all my questions and takes at look at my file. He informs me that based upon my file, he thinks I should be eligible for a complete refund (less $75 processing fee that CIC keeps in any circumstance). He says that nothing has been processed on my file. He sees no notes on the medical exam either. I find this rather disturbing, that my file has been there for 16 months and some paper worshiping government employee took it out of one pile in Alberta and stuffed it into an envelope and whisked it away to another CIC office in Ontario where it sits unopened. I inform him that I had recently ordered my FOSS notes and I was curious if those notes would indicate the reason for this dreadful delay. He states frankly: 'No, the FOSS notes won't help you figure that out.' Phillip also kindly states that any request to withdraw and subsequent refund takes about 12 weeks. (I ponder this and come up with the formula of 12 weeks in CIC time equals about 1 year in Earth time, based on my experience.)

At this point, my husband and I have to determine what kind of gamblers we are. Do we withdraw an application that is, perhaps, ~5 months (November 2007) from being looked at in Ontario or do we withdraw the whole thing and start over in Buffalo which also seems to be running at about 5 months initial processing time? Other factors include the fact that the medicals would have to be redone ($600) and new fingerprints ordered from the FBI ($40 but at least 3 months of waiting time), and we would be out the application fees until CIC refunded the original fees, if they ever do. We mull this dilemma for a few days and elect to keep the original application going. Emotionally, I want to wrestle my file from the wretched, cold hands of the Alberta and Ontario CIC immigration officers while beating them with a wooden spoon, but we can't always have what we want, can we?

Finding Nemo

By April 2007, I have become hostile about the immigration process. I am angry, blatantly and unabashedly full of rage. My immigration process has become a battle of principles now. Who, exactly, do these paper worshiping government employees think they are, that they can just put my life in limbo for however long they feel? My ECAS hasn't changed since November 2006.

I decide to pursue the other open item that still is out hanging: my overpayment refund. We paid my fees, in full, in October 2005. Still, not having received that refund of $485 that I have now named 'Nemo.' I feel I have a legitimate issue here and set out determined to find Nemo at all costs. My most productive call so far with the CIC agents of the Call Center, gets me a conversation that goes:

Me: "Yes, I am calling about getting a refund of my overpayment of the Right of Landing fee."

CIC Agent: "Yes, I see that you are overpaid by $485."

Me: "When can I expect that refund to be issued?"

CIC Agent: "You could get that refund in 3 days, 3 months or 3 years, I can't tell you."

Me: (stunned and silent)

CIC Agent: "You can send a letter to this address (rattles off some address in Alberta) and request the refund, but it probably won't help you get it any quicker."

Me: (still stunned) "You are kidding, right? Do you at least give interest since you have been holding that money for over a year now?"

CIC Agent: (chuckling) "No ma'am, we don't give interest. (laughs) Anything else I can help you with today?"

I know what you are thinking, dear reader. You think I am exaggerating about this conversation. I am not. With my hand firmly laid across a Bible, I swear this is the truth. I can't get my mind wrapped around this concept. I can't understand why the agent would find it amusing. CIC acknowledges the overpayment. They know its there. They willfully and deliberately will not return it. They have that money securely locked away and allocated on their budget. I do not think I will see that money ever again. They will find a way to keep it. They will change the fee schedule again just to keep it, or find some obscure government regulation that they will enforce just to keep it. I admit, perhaps some delusions of paranoia have set in regarding this refund, but I don't know what else to think.

I want to write a letter of complaint to someone (in all honesty, I want to scream at someone but I am trying to act like an educated adult). But I decide against it. All that the letter would accomplish is satisfying more paper worshiping Canadian government employees paper fetishes. Nemo is still missing and I have lost another battle with CIC. I fear I am losing the war, as well.

Status Check 2-32

Armed with the information posted on CIC's website and their current processing times, I leave the CIC Call Center alone for a few more months. Around comes October 2006 and having been sitting in Canada for over 1 year, I feel that about now, CIC should be doing more of their vodoo on my file.

I contact the Call Center on a weekly basis now. I ask benign questions like "What is the status?" and I always receive the same response: "We started processing your file in June 2006 and it is still in process." On one occasion, I venture a bit from the norm and inquire about an overpayment of fees.

I paid my fees in October 2005 (see: Going to the chapel and we gonna get married) according to the current fee schedule at the time. In May 2006, CIC announced that they cut their fee for permanent residence from $975 to $490 (see: CIC Reduction of Right of Permanent Residence Fee). I paid the $975 and hadn't received Permanent Resident status by their cut off date of May 3, 2006 making me eligible for the refund of $485. So I enter this conversation with my friendly paper worshiping Canadian government employee thinking it is a very simple thing, getting this refund. The nice CIC employee politely tells me that the refund is automatic and I will receive this refund when they have processed my file. Which begs the follow up question, "When will that be?" with the canned response: "Your file is in process and current processing times are 8 months." "But," I argue, "it has been 8 months." And still, I receive the same response: my file is still in process.

I leave all of these CIC Call Center phone conversations the same way: dejected and depressed. I learn nothing new with every phone call and my ECAS still shows the same information. My wiser-than-his-years husband advises me just to drop the issue; it will be over soon. He understands that I am not a happy person just playing housewife. I want to get a job, start looking at houses to buy, to basically get on with my life. But, wait more we do.